Pod­cast with Jack Nas­her: Stan­ford, Munich, Mon­ta­baur

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In this exci­ting pod­cast epi­so­de, “Jack Nas­her Stan­ford, Munich, Mon­ta­baur,” we tal­ked about Nasher’s work in Oxford at the Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty cam­pus, among other things. What are the dif­fe­ren­ces bet­ween uni­ver­si­ties in the new world and the old? What made his “Deal Dyna­mics” cour­se one of the most popu­lar on the Oxford cam­pus? But it’s also about cul­tu­ral and struc­tu­ral dif­fe­ren­ces, poli­ti­cal cor­rect­ness and his encoun­ter with Donald Trump’s Chi­na deal­ma­ker Robert Light­i­zer.


The Ame­ri­can Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty in sun­ny Cali­for­nia is just 129 years young. Sin­ce 2011, it has been the undis­pu­ted second best uni­ver­si­ty in the world. Bene­fiting from its pro­xi­mi­ty to Sili­con Val­ley, Stan­ford has pro­du­ced many foun­ders of well-known IT com­pa­nies (Goog­le, Yahoo). Sin­ce 1982, Stan­ford has ope­ra­ted satel­li­te cam­pu­ses at ten uni­ver­si­ties around the world under the name Bing Over­se­as Stu­dies Pro­gram. This pro­gram allows Stan­ford stu­dents to stu­dy or intern abroad.

Being part of Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty is also high on the list of prio­ri­ties for the most modern Ame­ri­can.

The most popu­lar cam­pus abroad last semes­ter was Oxford. This is very inte­res­t­ing becau­se Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty, which is clas­si­cal­ly ori­en­ted towards the huma­ni­ties, is a stark con­trast to Stan­ford. This dif­fe­rence can also be seen in its age — Oxford was foun­ded in the 12th cen­tu­ry and is the­r­e­fo­re the oldest Eng­lish-spea­king uni­ver­si­ty in the world. The demand is very high world­wi­de, so it is very hard to get accept­ed the­re. This is also reflec­ted in the stu­dents, who are con­sis­t­ent­ly very good.


Jack Nasher’s cour­se was voted one of the two most popu­lar cour­ses by stu­dents last semes­ter. Important­ly, the cour­se was inter­di­sci­pli­na­ry, so it had to be as inte­res­t­ing to busi­ness stu­dents as it was to che­mists and musi­ci­ans. At the same time, Stan­ford had requi­re­ments for Jack Nas­her that the cour­se also be sci­en­ti­fic enough. The com­mit­ment, which was ori­gi­nal­ly agreed for one semes­ter, has alre­a­dy been exten­ded twice. How it will con­ti­nue now, howe­ver, is up in the air due to Coro­na.


Poli­ti­cal cor­rect­ness has increased mas­si­ve­ly in recent years — in Eng­land, too, but espe­ci­al­ly in the USA. This is some­ti­mes very uncom­for­ta­ble. The idea of a stu­dy that women nego­tia­te less than men has led to nega­ti­ve feed­back.

You alre­a­dy think about whe­ther you can say that now

Even pre­sen­ta­ti­ons that were used just a few years ago now make you look twice. As good as the stu­dents are and it makes you proud to be a part of Stan­ford, it does take away some of the levi­ty. The ques­ti­on is whe­ther it has brought us clo­ser to the real goal — equa­li­ty for all peo­p­le. In any case, diver­si­ty should not mean that ever­yo­ne thinks the same and only looks dif­fe­rent.


Jack Nas­her invi­ted Donald Trump’s right-hand man on nego­tia­ti­ons to the Oxford cam­pus. Escor­ted by the Secret Ser­vice, Robert Light­i­zer gave a lec­tu­re to a sel­ect group. A cul­tu­ral dif­fe­rence, becau­se such cali­ber of peo­p­le do not regu­lar­ly pass by at Ger­man uni­ver­si­ties.


Stan­ford is a pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty and the second best uni­ver­si­ty in the world — albeit with an annu­al bud­get of $6.8 bil­li­on. As a pro­fes­sor at the pri­va­te Munich Busi­ness School, Jack Nas­her knows that the­re are major cul­tu­ral dif­fe­ren­ces here, too. In Ger­ma­ny, peo­p­le tend to belie­ve in the sta­te, and public uni­ver­si­ties recei­ve mil­li­ons in sup­port, while pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ties recei­ve no sup­port at all. An often over­loo­ked argu­ment in favor of pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ties is that the stu­dent is some­thing of a cus­to­mer the­re — and that’s why the uni­ver­si­ty does ever­y­thing it can to ensu­re that each indi­vi­du­al is opti­mal­ly sup­port­ed.

Why should a bus dri­ver use his tax dol­lars to fund my stu­dies?

That fun­ding our uni­ver­si­ties also has some­thing to do with equi­ty goes a step fur­ther and sti­mu­la­tes a dis­cus­sion that is per­haps long over­due. What do you think?


The inter­view was con­duc­ted by Mir­ko Herr­mann of NEXT­IM Inbound mar­ke­ting


Jack Nas­her Stan­ford Pro­files

Jack Nas­hers Books

Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty

Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty

Munich Busi­ness School


I: Gre­at. Yes, hel­lo, dear Jack Nas­her, for the third time this year on the pod­cast. 

B: Hel­lo, my dear, how are you?

I: Ever­y­thing is fine so far. We are, let’s say, out of the very deep val­ley of Coro­na tears hop­eful­ly soon — we can alre­a­dy see the next one coming, but of cour­se we remain opti­mi­stic. And I think our lis­ten­ers are loo­king for­ward to get­ting some infor­ma­ti­on direct­ly from you again today. Yes, Jack, you are Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty facul­ty mem­ber in the Oxford pro­gram. And of cour­se we’­ve heard a lot of good things about it. And I would be very inte­res­ted to hear what you have to report from your per­spec­ti­ve. Yes, what does that look like? What do you do the­re in con­cre­te terms? How does it work in Eng­land com­pared to Munich, whe­re you are a pro­fes­sor? But also to an Ame­ri­can uni­ver­si­ty, Stan­ford, whe­re you yours­elf used to work? 

B: That was a very inte­res­t­ing pos­si­bi­li­ty, becau­se I wan­ted to go back to Oxford. Becau­se I had stu­di­ed the­re and then also taught, my first so to speak begin­nings as a tutor. The­re is a pro­gram in Oxford from Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty, the so-cal­led Bing Over­se­as Pro­gram, so Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty has at, I think, 12 other cam­pu­ses, so still in New York, in Madrid and so on, cam­pu­ses abroad for their stu­dents who can do their semes­ter abroad or stay lon­ger, or even a who­le year or I think some are even lon­ger the­re. And Oxford is just one of tho­se. That’s been around for a cou­ple of deca­des now and it’s the most popu­lar of them all. And also the one whe­re it’s the har­dest to get in. That is, the stu­dents are very good, the Stan­ford stu­dents that are the­re. And it’s actual­ly quite inte­res­t­ing becau­se befo­re, when it star­ted, Oxford had quite litt­le inte­rest in Stan­ford, in any Ame­ri­can, rela­tively new uni­ver­si­ty. That has chan­ged com­ple­te­ly, becau­se of the ins­a­ne suc­cess of Sili­con Val­ley and Stan­ford is at the very, very top of all the ran­kings. I mean, it’s rela­tively young com­pared to Har­vard or Yale, it’s not an Ivy League uni­ver­si­ty, it’s from the late, just over 100 years old, and it’s gone cra­zy. And is just very much cour­ted in Oxford. The Stan­ford stu­dents who are in Oxford are also mem­bers of Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty in the time they are the­re, they are assi­gned to a col­lege. And the lec­tu­r­ers just as well. Was now also in a col­lege now some years. And this is prac­ti­cal­ly a cam­pus abroad of Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty. Which is quite inte­res­t­ing becau­se it’s prac­ti­cal­ly two real­ly top uni­ver­si­ties com­bi­ned. And the dif­fe­rence is inte­res­t­ing. Stan­ford is very Sili­con Val­ley, quite IT and start-up ori­en­ted. And Oxford is more of a clas­si­cal huma­ni­ties uni­ver­si­ty. And that’s also inte­res­t­ing, this con­trast.

I: Yes, I also ima­gi­ne it to be very exci­ting, the­se com­bi­na­ti­ons, yes, from the, we basi­cal­ly had the new and the old world tog­e­ther on one cam­pus, yes, Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty as the oldest Eng­lish-spea­king uni­ver­si­ty in the world. You just brought it up, Stan­ford just 100 years. Oxford I loo­ked up again, veri­fia­ble sin­ce the 12th cen­tu­ry. So it has.

B: Yeah, I mean, you have to say so in, (unv.) Col­lege has a buil­ding cal­led the New Buil­ding. That’s older, signi­fi­cant­ly older than Stan­ford Uni­ver­si­ty. That’s some­time from the nine­ties. That’s just under 200 years old, (unv.) years old. And that’s still the New Buil­ding. That you real­ly have that in per­spec­ti­ve. Ever­y­thing is very old, but of cour­se the uni­ver­si­ty always tri­es to be very modern and to adapt. It does that as well. I mean, the­re has been a busi­ness school for a few years now, whe­re I say busi­ness school, which I was also at. And in that respect, it’s kee­ping up with the times some­whe­re, but of cour­se the mind­set is some­what dif­fe­rent than (unv.).

I: You have alre­a­dy men­tio­ned many points. I have a few very spe­ci­fic ques­ti­ons about it. Name­ly, you tal­ked about the most popu­lar cam­pus abroad. How is that mea­su­red? So how do you deter­mi­ne what the most popu­lar cam­pus is? 

B: Well, the hig­hest, sim­ply the hig­hest num­ber of appli­cants and the hig­hest rejec­tion rate. That is, the stu­dents just, so yes, you can go to Madrid, you can go to Cape Town, Kyo­to and so on. But Oxford is the cam­pus with the hig­hest num­ber of appli­ca­ti­ons. It’s not sub­ject-spe­ci­fic, but every bache­lor stu­dent, i.e. inter­di­sci­pli­na­ry at Stan­ford, can app­ly, but actual­ly, becau­se it’s so hard to get into Oxford, which is cer­tain­ly also due to the name, I mean, being part of Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty is also very popu­lar with the most modern Ame­ri­cans. That’s why it’s such a very spe­cial, so New York is cer­tain­ly also popu­lar, but it is of cour­se, by the way in New York I also pre­sen­ted my, in the Stan­ford cam­pus I pre­sen­ted my book, “Con­vin­ced”, when it came out in Ame­ri­ca. They kind­ly made that available to me. But any­way, of cour­se it’s nicer to be in Oxford for many peo­p­le. And that’s why it’s very, very hard to get in. It just shows in the stu­dents. Well, they are real­ly top stu­dents, yes.

I: Your cour­se is the most popu­lar cour­se. What is it cal­led? And what spe­ci­fi­cal­ly do you do the­re with your stu­dent? What do they learn?

B: Yes, exact­ly. The cour­se was actual­ly the most popu­lar cour­se of the who­le semes­ter last year along with ano­ther one. Actual­ly, my Appoint­ment was only for one semes­ter, but has been exten­ded twice now as well.

I: Which is alre­a­dy extra­or­di­na­ry.

B: Which is unu­su­al and which put me in a bit of a time crunch, becau­se I’m a pro­fes­sor in Munich and I have to recon­ci­le ever­y­thing and I still have my, espe­ci­al­ly my nego­tia­ting insti­tu­te. That was not so easy last time. And now it’s writ­ten in the stars whe­ther it will con­ti­nue at all, becau­se at the moment ever­y­thing is on ice becau­se of the Coro­na situa­ti­on. Yes, my cour­se was, “Deal Dyna­mics” it was cal­led. So it’s good old nego­tia­ting. And I adapt­ed it a litt­le bit, of cour­se, but the important thing is that it’s inter­di­sci­pli­na­ry. That is, are not busi­ness stu­dents neces­s­a­ri­ly, so can also be, but it can, they can stu­dy any­thing. Yes, that is, it must be so that it is for ever­yo­ne the­re just also, puts a lot of empha­sis on the aca­de­mic.

I: Yes, I also find what you say inte­res­t­ing, that it does­n’t just have to be busi­ness eco­no­mists, but that peo­p­le from a wide varie­ty of back­grounds and inte­rests can be, Yes, espe­ci­al­ly

B: Yes.

I: but then also to be inte­res­ted in the sub­ject of nego­tia­ti­ons. What does that mean for the mix­tu­re? Or what kind of peo­p­le are you deal­ing with in the cour­se?

B: Yes, so actual­ly, so it’s real­ly (unv.) from che­mists to musi­ci­ans. So real­ly quite cra­zy. But you also have to be careful, that’s actual­ly so, the poli­ti­cal cor­rect­ness in Eng­land also, but in Ame­ri­ca is even much more wide­spread. That is, it is to, so you have to, which is also very uncom­for­ta­ble for me some­ti­mes, becau­se I can’t say some things at all. So actual­ly the­re are stu­dies that show that women nego­tia­te less than men, yes. And if you bring such a stu­dy, yes, I have now done in my one cour­se, then actual­ly came after­wards nega­ti­ve feed­back, so after the mot­to: yes, that’s sexist, yes. Whe­re­as that is just a stu­dy result, yes. So that is alre­a­dy, it moves a very, part­ly that one real­ly thinks three times whe­ther one makes a joke, which is actual­ly harm­less, think, is actual­ly harm­less, but many things, also if I mean, one takes one also lec­tures here, which one had a few years ago and takes the­re again a few slides and things, which I said five years ago, which I would not say today so, yes. And espe­ci­al­ly in Ame­ri­ca or at Ame­ri­can uni­ver­si­ties and also at Oxford in the mean­ti­me, you real­ly have to be careful. That’s actual­ly mine­field. So that’s ano­ther thing. As good as the stu­dents are, as proud as I am and as hap­py as I am that I’m back in Oxford and that I’m now even part of Stan­ford, that’s one thing that real­ly gets to me and I think that somehow, yes, it takes away a bit of the light­ness. But that creeps in more slow­ly in Ger­ma­ny, for­t­u­na­te­ly, I rea­li­ze, but it creeps in here as well.

I: Exact­ly. That would be my next ques­ti­on. Name­ly, we are on a simi­lar path, yes, in terms of deal­ing with the­se issues, equa­li­ty in every form, yes, of ver­ba­liza­ti­on. And the­re is also cri­ti­cism, but I alre­a­dy have the impres­si­on that this, yes, will gra­du­al­ly pre­vail. And the who­le thing is not sup­po­sed to be ideo­lo­gi­cal­ly loa­ded, but it has a goal, actual­ly. And that’s whe­re I ask mys­elf the ques­ti­on, sin­ce you’­re loo­king bey­ond the end of your nose: does it bring any­thing? Has it chan­ged any­thing posi­ti­ve for women? That’s basi­cal­ly what it’s all about, isn’t it?

B: Yes, so I, yes, well, women or others, so to speak, other skin colors or — is it still allo­wed to say that? I don’t know at all. It leads to the fact that, as Peter Thiel, the inves­tor, Ger­man-Ame­ri­can inves­tor once said, that diver­si­ty actual­ly only means that ever­yo­ne looks dif­fe­rent, but thinks exact­ly the same, yes. And that (unv.) diver­si­ty actual­ly can’t be, yes. Diver­si­ty must also mean that you can cope with the fact that someone at Stan­ford, for exam­p­le, likes Trump, yes. That just has to be okay. But no, that’s not okay. So that’s real­ly, now regard­less of what I think or someone else thinks. So I had the­re for exam­p­le, and I mean, that’s a very good thing about Ame­ri­can uni­ver­si­ties, they do a lot for their stu­dents. So that’s incre­di­ble in part. So yes, someone wants to play a musi­cal instru­ment, says: yes, I would like to play the vio­lin. And then they get you a vio­lin, yes. Yes, that’s incre­di­ble. You also had a bud­get and so on, and I also had, the­re was a lec­tu­re by Robert Light­hi­zer in Oxford (unv.).

I: Donald Trump’s joi­ner deal­ma­ker. 

B: Exact­ly. That’s one of the big­gest nego­tia­tors in the U.S., let’s say. So he was a part­ner in the, at Skad­den, he’s alre­a­dy, for Ronald Rea­gan he was U.S. trade repre­sen­ta­ti­ve and nego­tia­ted trade agree­ments. Now he is lea­ding the Chi­na nego­tia­ti­ons. A very expe­ri­en­ced per­son. And I invi­ted him to join us. It was also inte­res­t­ing that he came with Secret Ser­vice, it was a huge fuss. (unv.) he only came becau­se I was also at Skad­den. I mean, I did my clerk­ship, both were at Skad­den, that was the deci­ding point. Inte­res­t­ing, yes.

I: Not bad, yes, so.

B: Does he other­wi­se think, well, he has so much to do and is so busy. But quite inte­res­t­ing and a likeable, very Ame­ri­can type, yes. (unv.) Simp­le-working-class-Ame­ri­can, that’s what he fights for and that’s what he nego­tia­tes for. And that was not easy, so to speak, to argue that. Yes, how does Trump now, I mean, he’s on the pho­ne three times a day with Trump, is Trump’s right hand so to speak in nego­tia­ti­ons and so on. But then that was also okay, I have to say. So and it was also very nice. So he was just with us, we gave a small recep­ti­on the­re. So real­ly only for 10, 15 peo­p­le. So it was real­ly very, very small, rela­tively late in the evening, becau­se he was giving ano­ther lec­tu­re. That’s some­thing gre­at, of cour­se. And that’s what makes Oxford or other top uni­ver­si­ties, what I lik­ed so much, even when I stu­di­ed the­re, that you have incre­di­ble cali­ber of peo­p­le who come by all the time, yes. And also, who like to be invi­ted, becau­se you like to come to Oxford and be a guest the­re.

I: Yes, that is a cul­tu­re that sim­ply does not exist at Ger­man uni­ver­si­ties or col­leges. Right?

B: No, it’s more dif­fi­cult to do that. I mean, the­re are very big struc­tu­ral dif­fe­ren­ces. I mean, you also have to say Stan­ford is a pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty, just like Har­vard is a pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty, Yale is a pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty. And in Ger­ma­ny, the pri­va­te ones, well I’m at the pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty, at Munich Busi­ness School, that’s just still a long way, yes. Becau­se in Ger­ma­ny, peo­p­le tend to still belie­ve in the sta­te and say, well, the sta­te uni­ver­si­ties, which, by the way, recei­ve hundreds of mil­li­ons, the LMU in Munich alo­ne or the TU, hundreds of mil­li­ons. We don’t get any­thing and yet in Ger­ma­ny it’s somehow trea­ted step­mo­ther­ly. It’s very clear. So the­re are very big struc­tu­ral dif­fe­ren­ces. That would take us too far now. But in any case, in Ame­ri­ca and in gene­ral the­re is this cul­tu­re that the uni­ver­si­ty also does some­thing for you and so on, becau­se you are also a cus­to­mer in prin­ci­ple and not a sup­pli­cant who has to stand in line a thousand times to get some kind of stamp. That’s a very posi­ti­ve thing, in my opi­ni­on, yes. 

I: Defi­ni­te­ly, yes. You have alre­a­dy men­tio­ned the dif­fe­ren­ces bet­ween the stu­dents at the various loca­ti­ons. I would be inte­res­ted to know again what your per­cep­ti­on is when you com­mu­te or tra­vel bet­ween Eng­land and Munich. Yes, what do you think is the most signi­fi­cant dif­fe­rence bet­ween the typi­cal stu­dent in Eng­land and the typi­cal stu­dent in Munich?

B: I don’t know Eng­land very well, I only know Oxford and Lon­don in prin­ci­ple. I’ve only been the­re, but it is of cour­se the case that in Oxford, you just have to say, the best of the best go the­re, becau­se sim­ply, I mean now, if a Chi­ne­se or an Indi­an comes to Oxford, a lot must have hap­pen­ed. Eit­her he’s very rich, if he’s going to, but, whe­re­as in Oxford you can’t buy your way in eit­her. Or, so and he must be just ins­a­nely good, yes, becau­se just when he comes now so some Chi­ne­se vil­la­ge, so until he makes his way to Oxford. The­re are so many, so mil­li­ons of Chi­ne­se who also want to go the­re, yes. It’s so much easier for a Ger­man becau­se we have so much less com­pe­ti­ti­on, so to speak. If someone from a Chi­ne­se pro­vin­ce comes to Oxford, he must be bril­li­ant, you can’t say other­wi­se. And what the uni­ver­si­ty, I mean, at the end of the day you’­re sit­ting some­whe­re in the, in the libra­ry or on your lap­top, yes, ever­yo­ne is boi­ling with water, but what makes the, what makes this uni­ver­si­ty so good is: the peo­p­le who are attrac­ted by it. In Munich, we also have excel­lent stu­dents at the Munich Busi­ness School, but we also have stu­dents who are not so good. So the­re is a dis­pa­ri­ty, which is immense and which does not, sim­ply does not exist in Oxford, yes. So you just have to say that. The level, the avera­ge level, so to speak, is very, very high.

I: I see.

B: And the­se, I have taught at many uni­ver­si­ties and what I have seen is that sim­ply this con­sis­ten­cy of qua­li­ty, yes, that does­n’t mean that they are all geni­u­ses, but in prin­ci­ple, in Oxford the­re are just few toots, yes. You have to, yes.

I: Quite sim­ply and com­pre­hen­si­bly spo­ken.

B: Exact­ly.

I: Yes.

B: And what I see in Ame­ri­can stu­dents, the ones I’ve had, they’­re very, very dri­ven and often very, they alre­a­dy know what they want, yes. They alre­a­dy know what they want to do after­wards. They often see their stu­dies as a means to an end some­whe­re. And in Ger­ma­ny you stu­di­ed once and yes — what do you want to do? No idea, yes. That’s one thing.

I: Wher­eby I belie­ve that this is also a reflec­tion of socie­ty as a who­le, that, let’s say, here with us the youth, who often, in school it cer­tain­ly seems to me, yes, that they are rather some­what rest­ric­ted in their con­side­ra­ti­ons, their way of thin­king, yes, that they just, with us it’s cal­led buli­mic lear­ning, yes. So they instill some­thing in them­sel­ves in order to then give it out again at the right time, yes, in order to achie­ve a gra­de. But this lear­ning in the sen­se of inter­na­li­zing it and also gro­wing from it, yes. And from that, to deve­lop a per­so­na­li­ty, yes, with goals, yes, with a very con­cre­te idea, that is, I think, also what cul­tu­ral­ly has, yes, not such a gre­at importance with us, unfort­u­na­te­ly, as befo­re. 

B: Yes, well, I can under­stand both. It’s cer­tain­ly nice, too, so when I star­ted stu­dy­ing, that was even befo­re all this Bachelor’s‑Master’s stuff, alt­hough I later did a Master’s, too. But that was also very rela­xing. So you could also devo­te more to your inte­rests somehow. I sat in on a lot of other lec­tures. I star­ted with law and then I went to, I was real­ly fasci­na­ted by psy­cho­lo­gy. And then I sat in the lec­tu­re hall and just lis­ten­ed to psy­cho­lo­gy. Then I went into the lec­tu­re hall and lis­ten­ed to phi­lo­so­phy. That is also very beau­tiful, yes. That’s no lon­ger pos­si­ble today.

I: So lear­ning for the sake of lear­ning, yes.

B: Yes, exact­ly. And then, that, so that I also found very nice. So that, but on the other hand, I mean, I star­ted stu­dy­ing in Trier, yes. The sta­te of Rhi­ne­land-Pala­ti­na­te paid for my edu­ca­ti­on, so the citi­zens of Rhi­ne­land-Pala­ti­na­te, yes. I almost never went back the­re, yes. Is it fair now that I just got that the­re, yes, for free? I think, so sure, I took, yes. Of cour­se, what should I do? Yes, but somehow I think to mys­elf, yes, so that they have now pro­mo­ted all my inte­rests for years, is now actual­ly not fair. But it was good for me, yes.

I: Yes, well, I think that the sta­te also has a task, yes, to pro­vi­de a very, very high level of edu­ca­ti­on, yes, and that we do not neces­s­a­ri­ly have to hide inter­na­tio­nal­ly with sta­te insti­tu­ti­ons and uni­ver­si­ties. 

B: No, we don’t have to. The ques­ti­on is just who pays for it, yes. Should all

I: Well, sure.

B: pay? (unv.) so some bus dri­ver who has not­hing to gain from the fact that I’m a lawy­er or wha­te­ver, yes. (unv.) should he pay for it? Or should the one who bene­fits from it pay for it? No mat­ter when, whe­ther now imme­dia­te­ly or in years. But that’s a fun­da­men­tal ques­ti­on that has to be asked. Becau­se edu­ca­ti­on is not free, never was free. The only ques­ti­on is who pays for it.

I: Abso­lut­e­ly. Yes, abso­lut­e­ly, of cour­se, sure. That’s then, yeah, the com­pa­ri­son bet­ween the pri­va­te and the public edu­ca­ti­on sys­tem and cle­ar­ly, with one you pay the same only through your tax money, with the public. And if you’­re at the pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty, then.

B: But not only you. That’s the thing. Not only you

I: Well, sure.

B: But all of them. And the­re one must ask ones­elf halt. Should low-inco­me ear­ners or midd­le-inco­me ear­ners, who don’t have a degree and don’t want to, or don’t want their child­ren to, pay for future den­tists and lawy­ers? That is also a ques­ti­on of jus­ti­ce that is always, never actual­ly asked, becau­se it is always said that edu­ca­ti­on should remain free of char­ge.

I: What is your opi­ni­on on this?

B: My opi­ni­on is very dif­fe­ren­tia­ted. I think it’s unfair, fun­da­men­tal­ly unfair, that the com­mu­ni­ty, that peo­p­le who have not­hing from it, yes, so now, the best exam­p­le is mys­elf, stu­di­ed in Rhi­ne­land-Pala­ti­na­te, was prac­ti­cal­ly never again in Rhi­ne­land-Pala­ti­na­te. Alt­hough (unv.) with you here (unv.) again the­re.

I: Final­ly we get our money back. 

B: Yes, no, just not. The­re too I am only from

I: Yes, I know, yes.

B: to earn money, so to speak. (unv.) and don’t even give any­thing back. Yes, so that’s just, that’s actual­ly unfair. One sim­ply has to say. Even though I have pro­fi­ted from it mys­elf, so that, that does­n’t seem fair to me, yes. On the other hand, of cour­se, I see the stu­dent loans in Ame­ri­ca, they are ins­a­nely over-indeb­ted, the peo­p­le, at the end of their stu­dies. That’s also bad. So I just want to say, and this is also quite inte­res­t­ing. I don’t even have an opi­ni­on on a lot of things, becau­se things are so com­plex that you real­ly have to say, this is just a dif­fi­cult situa­ti­on. Yes, and me, I’m always sur­pri­sed when peo­p­le are then so outra­ged and say: this must remain so and so, edu­ca­ti­on must remain free, this is a mess. And so I’ve seen, yes, Mer­kel forces me to pro­sti­tu­ti­on, has once demons­tra­ted somehow, I’ve seen once.

I: Oh wow.

B: Yes, becau­se the argu­ment was that she somehow has to pay the semes­ter ticket and now she has to pro­sti­tu­te hers­elf, wha­te­ver, other­wi­se you can’t earn money to pay for it. 

I: Abso­lut­e­ly natu­ral, yes.

B: Abso­lut­e­ly (unv.). But I think to mys­elf, how can one be so indignant about such a com­plex ques­ti­on? Well, I haven’t thought about it enough to (unv.), yes.

I: I think that’s for both, the­re are, the­re are good argu­ments for both posi­ti­ons.

B: So do I, yes. 

I: Well, I think that the sta­te also has a task and a respon­si­bi­li­ty, yes, espe­ci­al­ly for peo­p­le who sim­ply would­n’t have the oppor­tu­ni­ty becau­se of their back­ground. Yes, so they have a com­ple­te­ly dif­fe­rent way of thin­king and thus a pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ty, at which they would have to pay their semes­ter fees, yes, 600 €, 800 €, 1,000 €, 1,200 € per month, that is bey­ond the means of the sta­te.

B: Yes.

I: every per­for­mance, yes. 

B: Yes, yes, but the ques­ti­on is whe­ther you give it as a gift. It’s not the sta­te that gives it, it’s all the citi­zens. The­re is no sta­te at all. So that someone is a gray emi­nence, that’s us.

I: Abso­lut­e­ly, of cour­se.

B: And should all of them be paid, or should the per­son who can’t afford it now pay at a later date? That is the ques­ti­on.

I: Abso­lut­e­ly defi­ni­te­ly. As I said, I think the­re are good reasons for both posi­ti­ons. And that’s why I think that’s also very good that the­re are pri­va­te uni­ver­si­ties as well as the sta­te uni­ver­si­ties. Good, my dear.

B: Yes.

I: You brief­ly men­tio­ned the topic of Rhi­ne­land-Pala­ti­na­te and Mon­ta­baur in pas­sing. And that brings me to a very important and rele­vant point. The­re is a date on Sep­tem­ber 3rd and 4th in Mon­ta­baur, whe­re you will give a semi­nar out­side of Munich for the last time this year.

B: Right, yeah, exact­ly. Yeah, there’s ano­ther one in Octo­ber. But actual­ly I’m the­re, which is quite extra­or­di­na­ry with such a real­ly cool guy, yeah, who’s such a real doer, who also spon­sors the, a run in the

I: The Koblenz com­pa­ny run. You’­re tal­king about Bern­hard Münz in Mon­ta­baur.

B: Yes, exact­ly.

I: Yes, exact­ly.

B: Exact­ly, yes. Cool guy. And he just orga­ni­zed it

I: (unv.), yes.

B: for his entre­pre­neur fri­ends and so on and alre­a­dy from long hand. And he has also somehow, he found, the­re was no decent restau­rant. So he just foun­ded one hims­elf, whe­re he can recei­ve his peo­p­le, which is sup­po­sed to be very good. And the­re it is, yes. I’ve heard a lot of good things about it. And in fact, they also have some kind of event rooms. And he has just, he was with me in the semi­nar and he just made. Have never done. And I am in Mon­ta­baur actual­ly. And we also see each other. That is also nice.

I: Abso­lut­e­ly, yes. Yes, Mon­ta­baur is a dis­trict town in the Wes­ter­wald and now you might think you’­re in the pro­vin­ces, but, yes, we not only have an ICE train sta­ti­on, the com­pa­ny 1&1 is also based here. Yes, it comes from here. Ralph Dom­mer­muth, ano­ther well-known, world-famous Wes­ter­wald man. And yes, in this respect I am of cour­se very much loo­king for­ward to your visit and that I can bring you a litt­le bit clo­ser to a small sec­tion of the beau­tiful Wes­ter­wald here. 

B: Yes, very good. So exact­ly. May­be I’ll see you at the semi­nar, I’d be hap­py to. That’s just the nego­tia­ti­on semi­nar, which I actual­ly haven’t given in a long, long time becau­se of Coro­na. I’ve now re-pre­pared and real­ly some new stuff. I’m real­ly exci­ted and yes, so that’s why we actual­ly, also becau­se of this Coro­na thing are, so I don’t want to adver­ti­se now, but are actual­ly still a few, I think, two or three places free from less than 20, from 15 or so.

I: Exact­ly, that’s what I heard.

B: Exact­ly.

I: And, yes, inso­far as our lis­ten­ers at this point, if you are now ear­ly enough, yes, then look at nasher.com, yes, in the events sec­tion, in the dates and may­be the­re is still a last place free. As I said, the last oppor­tu­ni­ty this year out­side of Munich. 

B: Gre­at, yes. Thank you for this subt­le adver­ti­sing, but sign up now. Dear. 

I: That’s how we Wes­ter­wal­ders are, yes, very subt­le, yes. I would say, we stay in cont­act. We’ll see you here in Mon­ta­baur on Sep­tem­ber 3, 4 at the latest. And I wish you all the best until then.

B: Yes, super, my dear. Thank you very much for the nice inter­view. See you then.

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