Hello Jack. Corona crisis, hard times, where are you right now? And how are you doing with social distancing? I see you in your Hugh Hefner memorial outfit?
There are also advantages, for example, you can walk around comfortably. So I go running every morning. I’ve never been so excited about going for a run. Then to Käfer, that’s the nice thing about Munich, that’s where I live, they have very nice rolls. It’s a kind of ritual, you need that somehow and then I come home, take a shower and then I get all dressed up. I have a lot of robes, I kind of like that, and that’s my fancy one now. Extra for the interview.
I feel honored. Very nice yes then, I have packed a few topics also with reingepack, which, I think, are not so well known by you. Maybe I wasn’t the only one who asked the question: Where in it is actually the professor, also the doctor? I saw you once on a picture together with Richard David Precht, whom I admire and revere very much, and thought to myself hey cool and found out now only the last days that you are doctor of philosophy and find that very exciting. Now just in relation to the current situation, because you can always look at things from different perspectives, but the philosophical is already so the higher-level that you can just have and that interests me very much.
WHY A DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY NEVER GETS BORED
I’ve always been interested in pretty tangible philosophy, especially philosophy of science, so how science has to be, how we can know what makes a good study and so on. So very technical, but very important. That’s why I think the idea of an open society is important, that you can discuss things openly, because it’s not about whether you’re right or I’m right, but about finding the truth together. That’s the idea of philosophy, which translates love of truth. And the problem now, as so often, is that a prevailing opinion prevails and there is no longer an option.
So if one somehow says the virus, all this is exaggerated because so and so and then he is not discussed seriously, but one says aha, this is a Corona denier or there are these stamps like also Putin denier or climate denier.Jack Nasher
These are all such stamps, I mean earlier in the Middle Ages one then said heretic and that was the end of the matter. You don’t have to deal with that anymore. I don’t want to call myself a philosopher, but if you study philosophy, you are not a philosopher, but a historian of ideas. So you deal with what did he say, what did the other say? I think that’s incredibly interesting. But in any case, I see that here as well, as always, when a dominant opinion prevails, I find that very dangerous for our open society, that many also go along with it, quite voluntarily. That’s one thing and the other thing is as a historian of ideas, which is just very interesting, we now have time to deal with things. So you can see my wall of books here, there’s still a lot to read.
Yes, but there comes a time for almost every book. I often buy books and I read them after four years or so and that’s okay. When I see that, then I know I can stay here three years or even much longer probably. So the collected works until I read them all and understand them.…
That is of course very beautiful, or as Aristotle once said: Education is the best nourishment for old age. There’s always something you can occupy yourself with as a philosopher or historian of ideas. Of course, that’s also an important thing, especially at this time when you have to spend your time at home.
But I don’t think anyone has to be bored.Versace once said he doesn’t understand why some people are bored. If you’re bored, do something else.Gianni Versage
Read a book and when you’re bored, read another one. First you watch a movie, then you go for a walk. I’m never bored.
This is the question after that: How well can I be alone with myself? Many people find this difficult because they have gotten out of the habit of doing it themselves. The offer is, after all, entertain me all day. Maybe it’s a chance for people to come to themselves a little more when they’re not beating each other to death.
Yes, for sure. So people are going to kill each other. I’m sure the divorce rates will go up and also the birth rates, maybe even both for some people. But definitely that’s going to happen, because people never have that much time together.
Absolutely! Both I find totally okay, because that’s also nice when you’re so close to each other and at the end of the time determines, no offense but I would have a better idea than to marry you. A real problem is, of course, when there are small children who need to be educated, but the parents are completely incapable of doing so. This can also escalate quickly, because parents are completely helpless and it then comes to domestic violence, which I also believe that it has an increased impact these days..
Certainly. So I notice even if I wouldn’t go running now, you already have such an aggression in you. If someone is standing straight, then that’s not good. You need an outlet, like this running for me. I don’t really enjoy it that much, sometimes I just do it. But afterwards you just feel much better and you feel right away that you’ve accomplished something.
That’s just incredibly important that we use the time to create something, use it in a meaningful way somehow, no matter what. So that’s always my motto, you always have to somehow twist what’s right now so that it’s better for you in the end.Jack Nasher
THE CRISIS AS A BOOSTER
Very nice, let’s include the next consideration. And that is the topic of companies in the Corona crisis. You’re also known as a business psychologist, and the question behind that is: What does that actually do to companies? Things have to be changed now. Home office is a big challenge for many, sometimes just because there is no equipment, but a very big problem is a mental problem, the mindset is simply missing. Part of the control may also be lost. The question, do they get the hours full, which is still there in many companies. What is happening in the companies right now?
Yes, I mean, there are now two boosts that can be seen quite clearly. One is this home office boost, which is simply inevitable even in companies that have always wanted to avoid it.
There are many companies that say it’s important for people to meet and communicate, but there are also many, especially introverts, who work much better in a home office because they can’t cope with the noise.
I have many participants in my seminars who say I don’t get anywhere because the door is always opening or someone is standing next to me and chatting me up, and I can’t tell everyone to go away. You have to learn that, too. The people who always dreamed of a home office might not be up for it anymore, because you need your discipline.
What’s also happening is a digital boost. So we’re all busy now, looking at Skype, Zoom or Microsoft Teams or whatever. These things that you previously put on the back burner because you weren’t up for it, I wasn’t either. I was always a live person, I wasn’t interested in that at all, what can you do? Now you just have to do it and now you compare. So I think that has inevitably brought us very far forward in digitalization. But everyone, there is no competitive advantage because everyone is now doing the same. Here, too, I think in the end you have to see that you don’t have to change anything in an extreme way. I mean, the world will go on sooner or later. The world will go on, because I mean I know some people who have the virus, they are doing well again. I’m not a medical doctor, but it doesn’t seem now that there is a plague wave coming.
The world will go on, the banks I work with are now running again as well. There were a couple of deals in the pipeline just now. It’s got to keep going, it’s going to keep going. I think people will have more sense of home office now.
Companies may have seen a few advantages with home office as well as the disadvantages. It has simply catapulted us many years forward in these two things: Digitization and office issues.
Whereby I believe that in this short time, where it now had to be implemented, not everyone is really up to speed yet, but in fact the wheat is still being separated from the chaff. Who can really handle it at the moment? And for whom is it perhaps still a bit of a longer stretch to be at eye level as well? Because you said, in the end, we’re all on the same level again, just more digital. I do believe that there is a difference in the ability to deal with it. I do believe that for many people there will be a very large gap that will have to be closed.
Then we come to the next topic, which has also been put on the back burner in recent years: eLearning. The companies have very different levels of success. BMW has been using eLearning for over ten years with its own in-house platform. Many large companies using it for onboarding, combined for employee training. But then in the mid-sized companies, which make up the bulk of our economy, we’re still relatively far away from that as well. Then, on the other hand, there is the topic of online courses in the business of consultants, which is not yet eLearning. Nevertheless, I believe that in this context, social distancing eLearning has once again created a much greater proximity.
NOT ONLY KNOW, BUT CAN
As far as eLearning is concerned, many people, including myself, who are not digital natives, always think that live is better, live is just live. But I’ve noticed, I’ve had a lot of lectures now, that there are considerable advantages to eLearning. Of course, first of all there are very simple logistical advantages. You don’t have to drive somewhere, that all costs time, you don’t have to pay for a hotel. What is also very important for participants, you can adapt everything to you. I notice when I teach that there are very different levels in the audience.
There are people who understand immediately, who want to continue right away, and there are other people who haven’t got it yet, and you always have to find the balance between how often do I explain this now, how many examples do I give, until everyone has got it. Some people get bored, of course. That’s why there are three different types of school. That is not possible with adult education. You can’t say, “Watch out, we’ll do three groups here first.
You have to take everyone with you and that is also a problem for you when you are sitting in the seminar. Do you come along or are you a person who always has to read everything or are you a person who has to practice or listen and you can control that very well with eLearning. You have the videos in front of you, that’s why we made this online academy in such a way that we combined it with live learning and above all you have all the seminar content after your time.
The video lessons are released gradually, so it’s not like there’s a bunch of videos and you’re like, okay, I might as well go to YouTube, but really broken down chronologically so that you learn that.
The key thing is you can always go back, you can skip things if they bore you, which won’t be the case because it’s already very dense everything, but you can, especially if you didn’t get it, go back or if you think I want to hear that again, you can just listen to it again. There are other benefits of eLearning, you can put the exercise right in also finish it at your pace and then zip to the next one and you’re done! There’s no idle time, there’s no douchebag you have to work with, all that’s gone. There are significant advantages and in terms of content it is exactly the same, only for you. It was important to us when we designed this new negotiation training, and we had it anyway, we wanted to do it in months, we have done it much faster now. Of course we also have to earn money, the seminars are canceled. Must be said quite honestly, is simply so and vice versa, of course, we also want you to earn money, that anyone interested earns money, that is again good for us. It’s really the opportunity now because you’ll probably never have that much time in your life again. Negotiation is important, especially when resources are scarce, and they will be for now, then of course you want the lion’s share. So at least you want to get a fair share and it’s going to be about negotiating right. In many industries, the only way you can make any money at all is through negotiation. We just designed it in such a way that we really use the advantages of eLearning. So it’s not a third-rate or second-rate live course, but it’s practically the live course that’s better for you. There are also the live seminars once a week where simulations are made, where you can practice, where you can ask questions. That is with the silver package and with the gold package there are also live meetings once a month, when you can meet again of course. But we are not going to be locked in for the next two years.
It’s a combination of exercises, of simulations live and all the content that’s online, the content is welcome to be online. That’s even better, because it’s chronologically ordered, so you just understand it, so it’s not like Youtube, …
here a video, there a video, in the end you don’t know anything. You have the slides, you have a clear order and at the end you have a worksheet with which you can go into every negotiation. You also learn how to expose lies, how to see if someone is telling the truth or not, how to ask the right questions and how to convince people of who you are as a person. Because people are more likely to buy and more likely to make deals with others they think are competent. That’s the essence of all my books, that’s all my seminars. So this is really where it all comes together, we haven’t had anything like this. I think if you say to yourself, okay, I want to make the most of this time, and you really want to learn something, this is something that I highly recommend.
I would do it myself as well. I designed it in such a way that I would also do it myself and I expect a lot, I get bored quickly, I want content and no babble, I really want things that are not available elsewhere. I want you to go out afterwards and not just know, once heard how something works, but that you can do it afterwards. Not just know it, but be able to do it. There is a very clear learning concept.
We have also formulated this very clearly. We have five principles of learning that I’ve come up with for digital learning, so that you really learn optimally according to the latest pedagogy and can really do it afterwards.
You deal with it, spend some time with it and then you can do it. With a certificate and all the trimmings, so to speak, you have it in writing, then you can negotiate, read and influence people — that’s the motto.
That sounds fantastic! This combination of content, the structure, the didactics behind it, just like in your live seminars, and that you still have the opportunity to talk from person to person in between, quite simply without being trapped in a structure. Also to formulate questions as you have them in your head and not somewhere in a sheet, from which you read and then of course take over a bit of the wording. It sounds as if this is already a positive development from this crisis and therefore perhaps also a good example for many other companies to simply tackle things now that have perhaps been thought about for some time, but were never quite brought to completion. But when they are implemented, to really do them at the highest level. Anyone who really knows you knows that you also have very high quality standards, that you are a perfectionist. I think that’s something everybody can look forward to when they go into the online negotiation training. If you yourself are satisfied with it and say that it’s all there, then in my view it really is a very high level.
REACH YOUR PERSONAL MAXIMUM
That pleases me and yes, absolutely, as you say, so we really gave everything, we keep working on it. So if anything is not optimal, it’s always improving. We’re all working on it, the whole team is working on it, I’m working on it. I’m present all the time and to that extent use the time, make something out of it. Because it’s going to continue and the question is, do you want to be able to look back on this time and say, yes, I really learned something that I wouldn’t have done otherwise.
So it sort of has an advantage for you because you’re going to learn a skill that you can use for the rest of his life and that you don’t learn otherwise, not in school, in very few universities.
But that’s something that really makes the difference, which is convincing people, and that’s in any deal or negotiation. A negotiation is of course always a deal. If I want to sell a house or a car, it’s decided within seconds whether you earn a few 1000€ more or less, no matter what you work, you don’t have such an hourly wage with anything else. But of course also in private, these are also negotiations. Where do we go out to eat, do we go to the cinema or which film do we watch, which will all happen again, these are also negotiations. In principle, negotiating means reaching your personal maximum.
Success actually means that you realize your personal maximum, that you can actually realize your personal potential, and for that, just these negotiation skills, which is the dynamic between people, are priceless.
That’s why I’ve been doing this my whole life, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing this, but I think the key of this world is really understanding people, reading people and influencing people. For me, that’s what I like to pass on.
And that is exactly what is included in the online negotiation training now really from A to Z within eight weeks, both the pure content, as well as the personal development. During the eight weeks, the participant receives individual support based on his personal status, where you can help him from one week to the next. In an online course with lots of videos, he might not make that next leap either. I believe that this is exactly the combination that generally means the future. The mixture of being able to learn as efficiently as possible on the one hand, but also from person to person. This doesn’t necessarily have to be on site and live, we are now having a wonderful conversation via Skype. I see you just as I would if you were standing in front of me. I even see you in private in your apartment with the big wall of books, in your Hugh Hefner memorial bathrobe, which is of course also a real highlight for me ????